"I’d rather be an artist first and foremost": an interview with Walter Etc.
Walter Etc. has a new album out entitled The Dark Comedy Performance Piece of My Life out now on his own label Making New Enemies so we reached out to him over e-mail about a month ago and then ended up Twitter DMing in the afternoon of April 9th. The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
Walter: Yoooo
Ghoulish: Okay okay. Let us begin I guess. How is the coronavirus treating you?
W: TBQH, besides being stressed about the future of our democracy and economy, and feeling sad for people struggling... my day to day life hasn’t changed too much. I’m usually a hermit so this whole stay inside thing just relieves any pressure I had to go out and socialize. haha
And I’ve been busy working on this album release so my work hasn’t changed too much either. What about you?
G: haha, well I am "essential" at work so my shit is just the same except now that I CAN'T go out, I want to. But I am actually making friends at work by just being super passive aggressive to everyone in authority and talking mad shit so it's kind of a win personally. But yeah I think I had a mental breakdown in the lunch room like a week back thinking about how we're all going to die.
Anyway, to get into the album... how do you approach something like this when it's got all these personal repercussions? Do you play it for your ex first or just put it out and apologize later?
W: Well before I recorded the album I called her and told her about the album, and asked if I could use her real name in a couple songs. She agreed and was probably dreading the album release for a long time. I offered it to her when it was finished but she didn’t want to hear it. Since it’s come out I haven’t heard from her. But yes it’s been pretty embarrassing in my personal life to put this out, but in the end I’d rather be an artist first and foremost so I had no choice but to put it out really.
G: The album lyrically is a change of pace for you and kind of more "direct" but musically it's pretty different too. Did you intend for that or were you just drawing inspiration from different stuff and it happened?
W: Ya, I think musically it evolves along the same lines we’ve been going - indie / surf / pop punk based music that dabbles in more and more different genres as time goes on... But ya I didn’t really intend to make these songs as “direct”, that kind of just happened. I think it stems from writing songs primarily for myself, usually a therapeutic practice, and I think I just fell back on my old literal story telling lyrics in order to deal with the things I was going through, cause that’s the style that comes most natural to me.
G: I gotta ask about “Cheer Up Walter” though. That song is a Capella. How do you decide to go with no musical backing?
W: That song was always a Capella based, but we actually tried to give it a noise soundscape behind it, but in the end that sounded too spooky and foreboding when it was generally a positive song about cheering up. So the decision to make it naked vocals came when the noise thing didn’t work, and Ian and I agreed totally naked felt more spiritual and honest
G: Interesting. So I assume this isn't the kind of album you would have put out when you were younger. From what I listen to it, it seems like more and more artists are kind of taking the leap of faith and putting out albums that make them feel vulnerable. Do you think that's sort of where we are at as a society or is just more just a coincidence of people getting to the same places in their life where they're willing to not self-censor?
W: That’s a really good observation and question. I really don’t have an opinion, but a couple ideas. Maybe it’s artists’ reaction against the increasingly phony culture of late era capitalism? Like an artist is compelled to be ultra honest because no one else is telling it like it is?? Or maybe music execs have convinced artists that authenticity sells so everyone is just going for it??? Or, I read an article lately talking about how millennials highly value authenticity while Gen Z doesn’t necessarily. So maybe it’s just that a millennial artist’s idea of their magnum opus is one that is super personal and honest, so they hit an age where they try to write that record? I’m not sure... just some thoughts... What are some examples of these recent vulnerable albums you’re talking about?
G: Uhh, I wrote down that question like a month ago when we were going to do this over email so I'm not sure I remember what I was thinking of at the time. But the new Gladie record [Safe Sins]. Uh, that Hayley Williams [series of] solo EP[s] thing she's putting out [Petals for Armor]. I actually feel like I listened to so much "punk rock" when I was younger and now I don't connect to a lot of it and I'm seeing so much creativity in hip hop so it's a really stark contrast to go from over-whelming machismo in rap to all this stuff now. Like Danny Brown put out an album a few years back about being a drug addict [Atrocity Exhibition]. This guy Supa Bwe is like almost entirely rapping about being depressed. [Additional albums that came to mind later: Manic by Halsey, Care for Me by Saba, Cry 4 Help by Kari Faux, Big Fish Theory and Prima Donna by Vince Staples.]
W: A lot more creativity in hip hop than punk these days huh?
G: haha, I don't wanna get "cancelled." The thing for me is just like I got into "punk" from Rock Against Bush comps and now we're in this Trump shit and I honestly think one of like 3 [“punk”] records I heard that come even close to capturing what is going on in the slightest is the last Sum 41 record [Order in Decline]. Maybe I'm not hearing the new punk bands though; I'm seeing almost constant new rappers.
For some reason all the lyrics I wrote down questions about are from your single “Punk With An Ex” which makes it sound like I didn't listen to the record, but on that song you said you're on the wrong side of your twenties which made me wonder what point did you know you were going to be doing this for a long time?
W: I gotta try that sum 41 album
Ummm I think I realized a long time ago that I’d be doing this Walter thing for a long time whether it’s popular or not. I like what I’ve started with it and want to continue its “legacy”, rather than just start a new unrelated band. I’m pretty sure I’ll be into making music for a long time, so the logical conclusion is that I’m in this for the long run! But ya definitely in the wrong side of my twenties, meaning literally the second half, but figuratively this is the side where you aren’t “sexy” anymore, you aren’t young and up and coming, there isn’t as much time to correct mistakes or go back on decisions, people don’t give you the benefit of the doubt for being young, financial responsibilities are adding up, and it’s not cute to be in an underground band past 25.... lol
G: haha, no I get it. I just wasn't sure if you were envisioning any of this when you put out Every Town Needs a Cowboy. Uhh, we're almost done, but we gotta get the "plug" sort of questions in... So this is the first Walter album that is coming out with a zine, how'd that come to be?
W: Always wanted to do zines with albums but always get lazy or too pressed for time or money to whatever. This one seemed like a good one cause a) there’s a ton of lyrics to fit on a lyric sheet already so a booklet would be nice and b) I’m putting it out myself so I might as well go all in and include a zine since I’ll be producing / shipping both from my garage
G: Well you gave me the lay up for the other "plug" question: this is the first time in the last like what? 4 albums, that you are putting out yourself? Was that just because it was so personal you wanted full control or how'd that decision come to be?
W: Definitely part of it was because it’s so close to home, Id like to keep it literally close to home. But the decision was mostly informed by a larger desire for independence in my music “career”. I’m really intrigued by the way someone could have a successful music career as a diy musician in the 2020’s with the internet and all the resources we have. I didn’t want to split my album proceeds 50/50 with a smaller indie label when I could just do it myself and keep 100% and own the masters for life. Traditional music marketing hasn’t worked for our band in the past, the music scene / industry doesn’t seem to care about our band, and so I didn’t think it’d be any different this time around and thus not work the money a label would put into it at ultimately our expense. I already run my own online store, so I don’t need anyone to ship my records for me. I know how to get digital distribution, and how to order vinyl. Haha long rant here but basically, since there was no major label million dollar offer, it just made more sense to me to do it myself and explore what this new era music career could look like for me.
G: How's it going so far?
W: For Walter standards, pretty good! Made my money back from the vinyl, so I’m in the green which was basically my only goal financially. But you know, I sacrificed the chance of major success. Like, putting this out myself isn’t gunna get me big press or big tours. But I knew that going into it
G: haha, nice. Well I had a few more questions but they didn't really fit into the flow or we kind of touched on them so now that I've kept you twice as long as we agreed to, I just want to ask one final question which is just what you're reading or listening to or, I had a question that didn't really go anywhere about your references to the Office and Modern Family ,so what you're watching in quarantine.
W: Haha you can ask me more dude I’m just chillin.
Dude I’m a random phase of trying to get into Beck and reading For Whom the Bell Tolls. Lol not the most interesting answers but that’s where I’m at
G: Are you listening to any albums you wanna shout out?
W: Dude still very into Milk Flud Supportive Nature even though it’s like 5 months old now
G: yeah the man of mystery. I have a billion questions about him, but I think that would veer things far off course haha.
I think the main question that I skipped over earlier (because you referenced how you came to write these more "direct" lyrics) - and this could be a massive bust, but with the way my brain works I found it to be the most fascinating - is like the way I hear the lyrics on this album - and I texted you about how it reminded me a little bit of the path Micah Schnabel has headed down - is it kind of seems like you hit a wall and were like "fuck it, I can't express myself whimsically. I'm just gonna cut the shit." Philosophically, is any of that true? Like is there kind of a limitation to certain forms of art?
W: Ya, I feel, for me, like sometimes metaphors and abstract lyricism is just a bunch of beating around the bush. Like why do I have to come up with some clever obtuse way of saying “we’re broke and don’t have sex and getting chubby”? Like to say it bluntly sometimes feels a lot better for me personally, and I think it has a certain stab to it cause people aren’t used to hearing lyrics that aren’t either cliches or metaphors. I mean obviously exceptions, but generally speaking the hyper literal lyrics seem to stand out to me. But there’s limitations to the direct lyrics too. Like things are maybe not as open to interpretation or appeal to broader questions? Sometimes a blunt lyric just starts and stops with that lyric haha
G: Yeah, that makes sense. Alright, I have no idea how putting an album out goes. Are you already thinking of your next moves or are you just focused on getting all the records shipped and shit right now?
W: I have a lot of the next record written. So I’m eagerly awaiting this shipping week or two to be done and so I’ll start demoing or recording the next one - and also putting effort into still getting this album out there marketing wise, but I fear I’ll fall short because I will be too excited to start the next project
G: Is that kind of how it always goes (minus it all being your responsibility) or just the nature of where you and the world are at in this moment?
W: Haha how it always goes for me at least
G: that's wild, but I guess it's also security from writer's block if you are one album ahead
One question I didn't write down to fall back on, but I wanna ask about given a few things you said in this interview and some of your tweets I've seen in recent months is like when I met you in the Portland punk scene I think I kind of thought of you as not particularly political, but now you're talking shit about capitalism. Is this kind of something you've grown into or along the lines of how you always felt? And also what's your view about like addressing politics in art vs personal subject matter?
W: Ya I pretty much have the same viewpoints as I always have had but I didn’t wanna speak out cause I knew I was young and there was a lot I had to learn. Now I’m starting to feel like I understand what I’m talking about enough to have public opinions. Still far away from being preachy tho cause I’ve much to learn and I’m not so steadfast in my views. I think art has room for politics and personal subject matter, and no one should be shamed for doing either. I sort of don’t like when people state that if you have a platform then you are obligated to use it to speak out about politics and such. But I think people have a right to if they want
G: I guess I'm just curious from my own experience of like when I was younger and trying to express myself through writing I felt sort like I should be talking about injustices but it just came out like complete shit and it still is like pulling teeth if I try really hard to write explicitly political stuff so I guess it's a question of inspiration, but do you just write what you write because that's what flows out of you or like you tried to write a song about the Supreme Court and it sucks and sounds like you don't know what you're talking about?
W: Haha ya I kinda just wrote what I write . I’ve never tried to intentionally write a political song, if anything just slip in a line here or there that questions some thing about our society, but nothing too directly political. I’ve actually been interested in writing more climate change / environmental lyrics,,, but I’ve yet to find a way to do that and not having it be clunky and lame haha
G: yeah dude! that's what I'm talking about. I think everything has it's place and I absolutely adore Propagandhi, but I was having a conversation back when we were still allowed to gather in groups about how Good Riddance influenced me so much more just by not being 100% political at all times, like they had songs about girls mixed in. I think I kind of prefer, it's almost a Trojan Horse, all the artists who write non-political songs and then just have a line in there.
Alright I think I'm all questioned out and I thought it would be cool to post this interview as screen shots, but I think I need to edit a little bit of the text so hopefully it copies and pastes well, but I think the way to end these things is to ask if you have anything else to add.
W: Haha umm just thanks for being interested and supporting me all these years. And I hope to see you soon!
G: Yeah you'll have to come up to Portland post-pandemic or something!